countingtls 1y ago • 100%
Can you show the variations for this poking?
countingtls 1y ago • 100%
For such a large dragon and such a big loss giving up any side, I feel a human would almost certainly opt to take the ko. And for black to invest so many moves setting up a kill, I also feel black can not afford to back off either.
The question is how would the ko progress? I seriously have no idea. There are quite a bit of local threats as well as the whole right side for white, and quite a bit of local threats for black and some on the lower left. It's really up in the air and hard to judge (and their value also quite hard to judge). White can not afford to lose this ko though, but it can possibly switch to other ko as well.
countingtls 1y ago • 100%
That much I gather, dig and clamp (K8 H8) what is the main line from the AI (bK8 wK7 bH8 wG8 bG10, it leads to a ko right?) AI doesn't always find ko variations easily and often not that good when the winrate is far from even (although the point difference might still within human, especially amateurs range, like +- 10 points going into yose)
countingtls 1y ago • 100%
The thing is that if it becomes a ko, white doesn't actually have to save both sides, but can leverage that and make an exchange for the whole upper right black group. I haven't counted, but feels like roughly an even trade. And we are back to count the ko threats if black didn't want to sacrifice the upper right and continue the ko. (or if it is not an even trade? and we are up to yose)
countingtls 1y ago • 100%
From the last black move, I assume it has something to do with the whole center white group's life and death. I haven't read it out, but looks like it might eventually be a ko in the center (very big ko)
countingtls 1y ago • 100%
Hmm, from I remember, black seems to be able to play bN8 after the bO8 bO7 (if white choose to play wL11 bK11, wK12 to cut off the black (or if white doesn't respond locally, black can just easily connect back, and white is already too far behind), And L11 is where AI seems to be blind to life and death, and shorten its own group's liberties.
If white doesn't choose to take the 3 black stones after the bO8, bO7, bN8, and choose to continue to push P8, black can just block with P9. White has to connect M8, and black can play L10, and white cannot connect M9 (or black connect N5 the whole white group dies). And white would have to capture with N5, black can throw in M9, wN9 capture, bO9, white again cannot connect M9, or bO4 kills all. Hence, the only option for white is to play O4, and black would be able to kill all the M10 white group stones. (this is effectively connect and die problem, and the commentator that day, along with Fujisawa I think, all read these out)
Hence, the best option to keep that M10 group and minimize the lost is to play N5 to capture 3 black stones first right after black K14, and let black to cut off the two K15 K16 white stones (Fujisawa had the chance to save those two stones before, and the game might go into yose, but she played H15 and allow Ueno to push and cut)
Besides this being a news for Ichiriki Ryo now had a lead of 3 to 1 against Iyama Yuta (just 1 more win to get the Honinbo title), the scoring of this game also showed a quite rare situation, when they played more than 361 moves (total 364 moves for this game). One side completely filled up during manual scoring, and had to count stones off the board. In the case of this game, it was filled to one side with 4 space left on the board for black, and 3 extra white stones off the board, hence 4 vs -3, so black win by 0.5 in the end { 4 - (-3) - 6.5 komi}. (If you found odd that the total count are 360 stones, but there are 364 moves, it is because they run out of stones, so they had to exchange two prisoners during the final dame filling phase in order to finish the game) The sgf record can be found here http://eidogo.com/#Pbj2YrFZ:0,364 BTW, this is also a game where the Japanese rule and the Chinese rule give different results. With 6.5 komi, the Japanese rule gives B+0.5, but with 7.5 komi in the Chinese rule, it is W+0.5 (or W+1/4 子 with Chinese half counting of total 184 black area => {184 - 3.75 - 180.5 = -0.25}). Also notice, this is not solely because the Chinese rule has more komi, but more to do with white plays the last move. In games where black plays the last move, the result might be the same (cases with seki and how the last ko is filled can raise more tricky situations and differences).
This is a game played on June 19 between Ueno Asami (as black) and Fujisawa Rina (as white). At move 159, Asami cut with K14. It involves a followup of the life and death of the white group M10, and most human players would be able to judge it, but AI (from Golaxy to Katago) all seem to deem it "alive" and continue to fight without securing the life of that group first. While a human player can read out the sequence like Rina did during the game and make the right choice. But it takes like 10k+ playouts before AI realize the K14 cut is a very good move, and (with few playouts AI even judges K14 as a blunder). And it takes millions of playouts before AI realizes the M10 white group is in trouble. What other AI blindspots and hallucinations have you seen in real games?
Kids are creative, and smart kids will get bored very quickly, even if repeat exercises are necessary practice for them. (There is no badukshitposting community on lemmy. Maybe we should accommodate more diverse posts here).
I've heard of the "carving" about weiqi, but never actually saw it, or even saw a picture of it till I start researching the history. The report in the link was written by the head of the Luoyang Weiqi Museum, so I am farily confident the authetisty of the pictures she took. And I will make a brief translation and introduction below: First of all, these carvings are called [畫像石](https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/%E7%94%BB%E5%83%8F%E7%9F%B3). a very specific styles of carvings used in the Han Dynasty China (the 2nd century BC to the 2nd century AD). So very high confident it is of its time. Here are the overall picture of the stone the carving is from   The dimension is 254 cm in length, 85 cm in height, and 26 cm thick, weight more than 1000 kg. We can see other recreation activities next to the "博弈", people were dancing and playing some kind of instrument (likely some kind of drum, or [bell](https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/%E9%90%98_(%E6%9D%B1%E4%BA%9E))).  There are other carvings of some daily activities in the back of the stone as well  In the close up shot, we can see there are two types of game boards carved on the stone, one is Go in the front, and another smaller board on the side, called [博](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liubo) (where only recently we've uncovered the actual game board for it), and Go has been associated with it for a very long time - "博弈". We are certain they were both quite prominate during the Han Dynasty (probably more for 博 than weiqi). Very hard to make out the number of lines on the carving, it degraded quite a bit. But it is for sure more than 9 lines or 13 lines, and on the range at least 15 plus even up to 19. (simply cannot tell for sure, and cannot rule out the original stone worker made it incorrectly to begin with)
This is from [an exhibit at the Suzhou museum last year](https://www.szmuseum.com/Exhibition/TemporaryDetails/10259e37-93e9-4722-9fb7-24b0b42bc454?startYear=2022). The topic of the exhibit is - "Restoration of Peace, the Four Faces of Han Dynasty Civilization", about archeological finds from Han Dynasty China near Suzhou. The stones are made of a type of glass and not necessary "black and white" but blue and slightly yellow white. (or they might have been darker and lighter, but the colors degraded or changed over time). It was found in a tomb of a Han dynasty high royal prince. They didn't find a board, but a cloth with lines drawn on it and too degraded to know how many lines it was. So it is possible that we didn't find many old game boards (or older than Han dynasty), not due to out of luck (or as some suggested Go was invented in Han dynasty), but because ancient players faced the same issue we are, and find it impractical to carry giant wood or stone slaps as gobans, and chose lighter materials like cloth or leather and draw grid on them as the board. Much cheaper and easier to produce.